What I Believe

personal note    

I know many of you may be thinking.."why doesn't she just drop all this hell talk?" It really is important what you believe about God.

I have a family member who committed suicide a few years ago. What if the loved ones who were left, believe that a person who takes his/her own life goes straight to hell??

Can you imagine the anguish they must feel?

When I was working, I had a patient tell me that her child's Sunday School teacher told him that his daddy was going to Hell... because... he drove a Budweiser truck.

Imagine how that ten year old felt.....

Folks, honestly, it matters what you believe about God. It affects who you are. Before you put all confidence in someone to tell you what the Bible says, do a little homework. If you ask a pastor/teacher about Hell and they immediately bristle up in defense of it, ask someone else who seems more humble. The all knowing attitude sometimes is a cover-up for not knowing the answer to your question. Not that they want to be that way, they just may be embarrassed not to have really studied it....


Universal Salvation

It doesn't take away from the gospel, it IS the gospel.
It doesn't take away from judgment, it makes sense of it.
It doesn't take away from personal belief, it allows it to be enjoyable.
It doesn't take away from the BIble, it harmonizes it.

 When I first heard that the doctrine of eternal torment was not from the Bible, I thought, "yeah, right".That was probably about eight or nine years ago. I read it on a Christian discussion board. The person that was putting out such scandalous information even gave the dates when the salvation of all men was declared heresy and

I think a couple of times the council tried and failed before they go it passed.. Did I bother to look it up?   No, I thought it was senseless to start with so why would I even bother?  Well, since then the need arose in my life to find out if that information could really be true.Here's what I found: I found that I was the sheltered, ignorant, one that didn't know her history.    

  Well, maybe it's time to wise up.   

 To my surprise, Universal Salvation was not officially considered heresy until sometime around the sixth century. Gary Amirault from Tentmaker.com has compiled some of that history for us. Many orthodox Christian historians acknowledge that the majority of the early church did not teach eternal torment.


Couple of examples: Geisler-"The belief in the inalienable capability of improvement of all rational beings, and the limited duration of future punishment was so general in the West, and among the opponents of Origen, that it seems entirely independent of his system (Eccles. Hist., 1-212). (Origen has been accused of bringing into the church the heresy of the salvation of all. Geisler points out the belief was prevalent even apart from Origen's influence.)

 The German theologian and historian Johann Christoph Doerderlin writes: "In proportion as any man was eminent in learning in Christian antiquity, the more he cherished and defended the hope of the termination of future torments".

Professor and historian Henry Oxenham informs us that the, "Doctrine of endless punishment was not believed at all by some of the holiest and wisest of the Fathers, and was not taught as an integral part of the Christian faith by any, even of those who believed it as an opinion".

 Historian Pfaff says: The ultimate restoration of the lost was an opinion held by very many Jewish teachers, and some of the Fathers.

Dietelmaier: Universalism in the fourth century drove its roots down deeply, alike in the East and West, and had very many defenders.

 Reuss :The doctrine of a general restoration of all rational creatures has been recommended by very many of the greatest thinkers of the ancient church, and of modern times.(Hist. De la Theol. Apost.).Prior to Augustine in the 5th century, the vast majority of Christians including the leadership believed in the Salvation of all mankind through Jesus Christ.

St. Basil the Great (c. 329-379) in his De Asceticis wrote: "The mass of men (Christians) say that there is to be an end of punishment to those who are punished".

St. Jerome (342-420): "I know that most understand the story of Nineveh and its King, the ultimate forgiveness of the devil and all rational creatures.

The Christian leader most instrumental in bringing in the damnable heresy of eternal torment, Augustine, admits himself that "There are very many (imo quam plurimi, which can be translated majority) who though not denying the Holy Scriptures do not believe in endless torments.(Enchiria, ad Laurent. c.29) Imagine, the champion of the doctrine of eternal torment admitting out of his own mouth that as late as the 5th century many or the majority of believers did not believe in eternal torment and he said they did not deny the Scriptures in believing so.

Of the six theological schools known to the early church, 4 taught the salvation of all, one taught annihilation, and only one taught eternal torment.The Greek word aion was not used to mean eternal in the early church writings.

The President of the Second Ecumenical Council of Constantinople in 381, St. Gregory of Nazianzus was an outspoken Universalist, that is, he believed in the Salvation Of All Mankind Through Jesus Christ. Would the church designate a heretic as its head at such an important meeting?


When Emperor Justinian finally declared the teaching of the Salvation of all as heresy, he used the word "ateleutetos" to describe "eternal punishment" not aionion which is the Biblical term. If aionion meant "eternal" why didn't he use it? He didn't because it didn't mean eternal!

Many writings are still preserved from the early Christian bishops which clearly show they did not teach eternal torment. To mention just a few: Clement Alexandrinus, Gregory Thaumaturgus, Ambrose, Titus of Bostra, Diodore of Tarsus, Isidore of Alexandria, Origen, Theodore of Mopsuestia, St. Gregory of Nazianzus, etc.

When studying the lives of the early leaders, those embracing the Salvation of all clearly showed much more love and fruit in their lives than those who taught eternal torment. Compare Origen and St. Gregory of Nyssa with Tertullian and Cyprian.

 If the doctrine of the salvation all was heresy, why didn't the church declare it as such until the church entered the dark ages? Could it be that when the pagan doctrine of eternal torment entered the church, this very doctrine brought about the gross darkness which the church plunged into?

It was not until the church left the Greek text and went to the Latin Vulgate Text that large numbers began to believe in eternal torment.

That was because Jerome mistranslated those very words we have just been talking about. The Latin Vulgate perpetuated the error. As long as the Church primarily used the Greek Text, it taught the Salvation of All Mankind. As late as the 16th century lexicographers such as Phavorinus knew that aion was just a time word. But he also noted where the idea of changing the meaning came from. He writes, "Aion", time also life, also habit, or way of life.

Aion is also the "eternal" and "endless", as it seems to the theologian. Here we see where the deception came from, the theologian!  You know, if the traditional "Hell" is true, I couldn't imagine anything any worse happening to someone, can you?

So, do you really, really, believe it is true? Let me ask you something that could cause you to re-evaluate that belief.

What are you doing to keep people out of Hell? 

Do you care that people are going?

If a crazed killer escapes from the jail in your neighborhood, will you warn your neighbors, children, and grandchildren? Of course you will!

Are you comfortable telling people they are going to Hell?

Do you ever feel a check when you do that?

I was just thinking this morning as I cleaned, how we take happenings from the Bible and assume they teach endless Hell when they really don't.

1. There's Adam who was told he would die if he disobeyed, not go to Hell.

2. There's the snake on the pole in the wilderness. The people were told to look on the snake and they would not die, not, they would not go to Hell.

3.  There's Jesus warning the Pharisees about Hell (Gehenna, the garbage dump indicating worthless works)... After He condemned them to Hell, He tells them, You won't see me again UNTIL you say...""Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.""

Life is hard now days. It's easy to get overwhelmed. But, we do have the promise of God to Look to Jesus and live. Like God's people in the wilderness. They had a choice..they could look and live, or, die.

I have a couple of people in my life who are trying to beat drugs. It's not an easy path, but it's the right path. I couldn't imagine trying to "beat" anything with the threat of going to Hell hanging over me if I did not succeed.

Just had this on my heart and wanted to share it.. 

Debbie

OMG! I just googled "is hell real?"  Such nonsense from the heart of natural man....

And These Shall Go Away Into Everlasting Punishment

Matthew 25:46   And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

This is the big Hell scripture of Christendom. Its amazing how simple it isn't!Do you believe that we are saved by our works?Let's see what this Hell passage really says.


31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.


34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? q1
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not unto me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Well... We see what He didnt say.

He didn't say to those on His left...depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For you never accepted Me as your savior....      What did he say?
Who was he talking to?
What was he talking about?
Was it individual judgment?

Trying Again To Move Info Over....

Obviously, this endeavor is moving slowly. We have sweet grandbabies living with us and there is not much computer time anymore. But, I am still as passionate as ever about the subject of Hell and hope to get my old website info moved over here, as well as any new information that comes along.

God Bless,

Debbie :)

THINK ABOUT IT

Why didn't God tell Adam and Eve about hell?

 

Why didn't Jonah tell the people of Nineveh about it?

Why did Peter never once mention hell in his sermon on the day of Pentecost?

Why didn't Paul tell the idol worshipers in Athens about hell?

Did Jesus ever say the word hell?

If Jesus took our punishment and if that punishment is eternity in Hell, shouldn't He still be there?

Do you "try" to love God because you feel you have to? Be honest...

Are you afraid that someone you love will go to hell?

Would you like to know that no one will spend eternity in hell?

Why Hell?

We believe what we believe about hell because of the way our Bibles read. As traditional church goers, probably, very few  of us have  been encouraged to voice our fears and questions when it comes to hell.  As much as I didn't understand the whole concept of hell, I felt I had no choice but to believe it because of what the Bible says.

Well, in the last few years, I started to see some of the other things the Bible says. One of them is .."Come, let us reason together..."  I knew that verse existed, I just never did what it said. I guess I didn't know I could "reason" where Hell was concerned. Why are we uncomfortable with reasoning when it comes to hell?  Perhaps we just feel inadequate to even speculate.  Are we afraid that God will send us to hell if we question it? Jesus didn't say, "whosoever believeth in hell shall have everlasting life." He said, "for God so loved the world, that He sent His only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

We are encouraged from the scriptures to search them, to rightly divide them, to study like the Bereans to see if what we have been taught is true. God is the perfect father. He disciplines His children as any father would, but, His punishment is for our good, not for our endless torture. 

 Who would benefit by eternal torment?

Seriously...think about it...

You may be thinking, "what difference does our reasoning make, when the Bible plainly says it is true?" Well, folks, it does not plainly teach it.  For me, finding out that the doctrine of hell is not  as "set in stone" as I thought it was has been too good to be true, but I believe it is.

Jesus said, "fear not" way too many times for us to be afraid to enjoy life to the fullest.  Enjoying life became an impossiblity for me, believing so many people would burn in hell forever, especially, some of my family